Podcast: Top 10 Questions to Ask Your Divorce Lawyer pt. 1

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In this transcribed interview with Dale Goldhawk of Zoomer Radio AM740 in Toronto, family law and divorce lawyer Lorne Fine of Fine & Associates Professional Corporation discusses the top 10 questions that someone should ask their divorce lawyer during a first consultation.  Read the interview below, or listen to the podcast at the bottom of the page.  Also, a free copy of the Top 10 Questions is available for download from the Fine & Associates home page.

Goldhawk Fights Back Podcast:  Recorded November 28, 2013

Dale: 12:18 on Zoomer Radio, time to find out how to handle your lawyer. We have one with us right here in the studio. He is not just a lawyer, he is our family lawyer, Lorne Fine.

Lorne: Thank you.

Dale: And he is here and he has brought along an interesting piece of paper here that says…

Lorne: Yeah an outline.

Dale: The top ten questions you should ask a divorce lawyer. Shall I go through some of these? Because they are really good.

Lorne: Sure.

Dale: You put this paper out yourself right?

Lorne: Yeah it’s actually on my website www.TorontoDivorceLaw.com, but this is a good outline.

Dale: Okay do you hand this to clients when they come in?

Lorne: They can actually go online and punch in free download. So this is free download from my website.

Dale: Oh a free download and I got free paper here.

Lorne: It’s free to you, a gift to you. My gift to you.

Dale: So these are questions you should ask your divorce lawyer?

Lorne: Yeah.

Dale: And the first question is what’s your experience with family law. Well you would think that the answer would have to be fairly impressive.

Lorne: Well you know there are some lawyers that practice just family, there are some lawyers that just practice just criminal but there are some lawyers that practice family law, criminal law, real estate law, corporate law, they may practice in a number of fields. So I think it’s important to get somebody who practices in that field of law that you want them to practice in.

Dale: In another words you would as a client of a lawyer you would want to think you were going to, a specialist in the area of law that you’re concerned with?

Lorne: Well the law certainly has designation for it’s called a specialist in that field. So you don’t necessarily have to go to somebody who specializes or has that specialist designation, but you should have go to somebody whose practice emphasizes family law, emphasizes divorce law because that’s all that person does, right, and you have this when you’re, it’s hard to stay on top of all the areas of law because the law evolves, the law changes. So if you’re doing criminal law, you’re doing family law, you’re doing real estate law it’s hard to keep up with everything but if you’re doing just family law or just one field, the lawyer should be able to keep on top of it and be up-to-date and really that someone who should be helping you out.

Dale: Well I would think it would also depend on what it is you want that family lawyer to do for you if something I don’t know maybe straightforward and fairly if there are such things straightforward then you might choose a lawyer who also practices in another areas, [depending].

Lorne: Yeah. You’re absolutely right.

Dale: But then again you’re not much of a judge of that, it’s a mere [morally]. You don’t know how complicated it can be, so maybe you first got to go to the specialist guy.

Lorne: You know if it’s a simple and contested divorce, if it’s a simple separation I mean you’re you may want to go to somebody who practices a number of fields. You may have a relationship with the lawyer, you may have a real estate lawyer who also [practices] family and you feel confident with that.

Dale: So after buying that big house, a divorce and sued and use the same guy?

Lorne: Maybe.

Dale: Oh man it’s a little too close-handed for me.

Lorne: It’s possible, it happens.

Dale: All right well in law most of these things happen sooner or later, don’t they? I mean it’s the truth is stranger than fiction?

Lorne: It really is, yes.

Dale: All right point number two, how will and this is the question you would ask your family lawyer. How will you communicate with me? That would be important I think.

Lorne: Right. So I practice a lot by email, I email people and I just find it’s faster and I may send out a draft letter to the person by way of email and they can make revisions to it or give me their comments and I find it’s much better than mailing a letter out. Very seldom do I mail a letter out but it’s important to, you know it’s important to have a lawyer that’s going to say you know I want your feedback. You’re going to send your lawyer, send me a draft before you send something out. You know here’s my e-mail address so it’s important to have a lawyer that’s tech savvy somewhat and that’s comfortable with e-mails and PDFs, and so on because it’s faster, more convenient than just mailing something.

Dale: But you as the client may not be that comfortable.

Lorne: You as a client, right, that’s right. If you’re not comfortable with e-mail then that’s fine, but certainly lawyer should keep you advised of the steps and call you on the phone and keep you abreast of the case as it goes on. What’s interesting as well as when it comes to e-mails I tell my clients to get a fresh e-mail, to get a new e-mail because they don’t know if there e-mail has been compromised; they don’t know if their spouse has compromised their e-mail. So that’s important too.

Dale: Really?

Lorne: Oh yeah happens all the time.

Dale: Really?

Lorne: Oh yeah.

Dale: Special email address that you and your lawyer can use.

Lorne: Sure because you know your spouse may know your passwords, right?

Dale: [laughter] or something like that. When you’re talking about communication do you find that the potential clients would also ask you something along the lines of this if I call you and leave a message how long will it take you to return my call?

Lorne: That’s a valid question. And I tell my associates you don’t leave at the end of the day until all your calls are returned because if you leave your calls this just piles up. So really you should expect a response from your lawyer whether it’s by e-mail or telephone at least within 24 hours, within a day and if it’s urgent you should have it within a few hours if you say it’s very urgent.

Dale: I think in common practice of the call was returned within say the 24 hour period people would find that would be fair.

Lorne: Yeah.

Dale: That’s fair.

Lorne: But sometimes…

Dale: Email is a little different; I mean I think we have that expectation. You send somebody an email you’re kind of staring at your Blackberry waiting for the results.

Lorne: Yeah you get a response a few hours later, you say, “Why did you ignore me?” right.

Dale: Yeah right, what took so long?

Lorne: What took so long? Yes. That’s the downside of email is that everyone does have that expectation of immediate responses and it’s not always possible to have an immediate response but certainly as you said within 24 hours is fair and a telephone call within 24 hour is fair.

Dale: Okay. Now here is another good question, this is only point number three, good grief, we’re never even going to get through ten. Point number three.

Lorne: Yeah but these are good points.

Dale: Here are the numbers to call if you want to join in this conversation, 416-360-0740 or 866-740-4740. What were you going to say before I interrupted you?

Lorne: Well I was going to say that this applies not just for family lawyers but any lawyer, any professional.

Dale: Well I’m just going to say this kind of.

Lorne: Yeah. Any professional you’re going to have relationship with you wanted to ask.

Dale: Okay so the next question is how well the process go and people always wanted to know don’t they? Well you will do this then they will do that and then you will do this, just tell me a bit about what we’re up against? That’s not what you’re driving at here?

Lorne: Tell us how this works?

Dale: Yeah.

Lorne: What’s the process?

Dale: Because people don’t know.

Lorne: They don’t know, so the lawyer is supposed to help you and educate you as much as possible to guide you through the process. So it’s you know there is no such thing as a stupid question, you ask the lawyer what’s the best way of proceeding? Explain to me the different steps, what’s the purpose of the different steps? So you know that’s a very valid question.

Dale: I have built a whole career on there is no such thing as a stupid question because I’ve asked many, thousands of them over the years. Now the next two points are kind of linked. How long will the process take and I’m linking it with how will you charge because if you’re asking how long it will take you’re probably running up in your mind how long, how much the whole thing is going to cost but they are really linked aren’t they?

Lorne: Well in a way yes, it’s very difficult for a lawyer to say how long something is going to take because it really takes two to tango right? It takes two people to either be reasonable and negotiate resolution but if one person is not reasonable then it’s going to take longer and so there is a best case and worst case scenario but a lawyer should have some idea of you know I usually say within the hour, how many hours but you know five to ten or something to that effect for each…

Dale: That’s how you would do, you would quote by, they would know, you would tell them your hourly rate?

Lorne: Right.

Dale: Is that what you do?

Lorne: Yeah your hourly rate but you can’t be held, it’s very difficult for a lawyer to be held to that range and point number five one I said how are you charged? There is a retainer agreement. So you should have an agreement between you and the lawyer setting it out, it’s called the retainer agreement, setting it out what your early rate is, how you charge you know whether you accept credit card or payment plans. You know what’s important between you and the lawyer is what exactly are you retaining the lawyer to do right? This retainer agreement is going to say, “I’m retaining you to negotiate a separation agreement or I’m retaining you to…”

Dale: Yeah you got to know what the end goal is right?

Lorne: Right.

Dale: And don’t you also have to know whether or not, I mean a lawyer’s time working on your case is different than a lawyer’s time if the lawyer is actually going into court right?

Lorne: Well some lawyers charge on hourly basis if they regardless of whether they go to court or not just wasting their time. Some lawyers charge maybe a block fee for going into court and hourly fees for.

Dale: But they are different kinds of time I guess is what I’m trying to drive at.

Lorne: It can be it’s up to the lawyer and people have to understand that lawyers charge by their time so it’s point one of an hour, so [point 1, 1.2, 2.3] of your hourly rate. So you know every phone call, every email…

Dale: Well that was my next question that was very next question Lorne you just, you’re so intuitive about these things. So when I send you an email if you’re my lawyer you charge me for reading it essentially?

Lorne: I do.

Dale: Well it’s your time I get that. And if I phone you and talk to you on the phone for point one of an hour well I get charged for point one of an hour.

Lorne: That’s right.

Dale: Right?

Lorne: I had a client recently that was sending me 10 emails a day and I said I’m charging you for these. It was perfectly clear, I will read your 10 agreement you’re being charged. He goes, “I know.” Because it was just ridiculous right?

Dale: Yeah.

Lorne: It was just a lot of emails and so you know clients have to be aware that if they send an email they are being charged, if they call they are being charged. It’s all time based.

Dale: And people should be cautioned to not confuse being a lawyer with being a social worker.

Lorne: Absolutely.

Dale: If you know what I mean.

Lorne: Yeah we’re not trained for that and if you want to, you can call your lawyer. If you’re friendly with your lawyer you can say you know, you can go off to meet her, let’s go off to meet her.

Dale: Yeah you can try that right?

Lorne: Can I ask you as a friend, you know I’m friendly with you.

Dale: Do you have many friends as clients?

Lorne: I have no friends anywhere.

Dale: Of course go back to point one you’re a lawyer. Do you friends as clients?

Lorne: It’s very difficult. I do but it’s very difficult to act for friends.

Dale: Yeah that’s the next part of the question that must be very tough road to hoe right?

Lorne: There are some friends where you know I may know the wife as well and I say I really can’t get involved.

Dale: You might refer to somebody.

Lorne: I refer them and I say if you need me I’m here but it’s very difficult to get because then you get emotionally involved and you may, you know the other side. It’s difficult, it’s very difficult.

Dale: Do you ever make friends who are former clients?

Lorne: I do, I do, I do [laughter]. Well you develop a relationship, right?

Dale: But you can’t help develop a relationship because you’re going to spend probably and in many cases a considerable amount of time?

Lorne: But some people more than others but you know…

Dale: Yeah I’m sure.

Lorne: You get along with some people more than others.

Dale: And some clients you’re relieved to see walk out the door and some not so much.

Dale: 12: 37 on Zoomer Radio Lorne Fine is here answering your questions about family law, about divorce proceedings that sort of thing. Here is Stan on the line from Burlington. Stan do you have a question?

Stan: I do. I would like to know what the average length to get a separation settled. My daughter has been separated for a year ago, July and it’s still isn’t finalized.

Lorne: Okay, well it all depends on what the issues are. I don’t know if they are complicated issues there may be let’s say there is valuation issues maybe one spouse has a business that has to be valued, maybe there is income determination issues. So it depends, it depends on what the issues are and how complex it is. If it’s…

Stan: It doesn’t look like there is too many problems but I just wanted what an average was.

Lorne: Well there is no..

Dale: It’s hard to know that.

Lorne: Yeah I can’t really say what the average is, it really depends on the parties.

Stan: All right it’s just frustrating, it seems to go on and on and it doesn’t seems to be too complicated but it has taken a long time.

Dale: Yeah well a year is a long time you’re right. You know if you’re concerned speak, do both parties have lawyers?

Stan: They have separate lawyers.

Lorne: Okay so then have you know have a meeting with a lawyer and express your frustrations as why is this taking so long and how long do you estimate it’s going to take to finish this.

Dale: The father of the bride can get involved, can he?

Stan: Teacher and I keep my nose out of it but just was wondering if we could expect to see something soon or this is normal.

Lorne: Well you can have your daughter call her lawyer and find out why it’s taking so long. A year is not that long.

Stan: Okay that’s kind of what I’m looking for, it’s not unusual to…

Lorne: No I would say usually the range is anywhere from you know six months to a year.

Stan: Thank you.

Dale: So it’s at the high end of that.

Lorne: If it’s relatively simple, relatively straightforward it can be longer. It depends, like I said how complex it is.

Dale: Stan thanks very much. I hope that helps.

Stan: Thank you. Bye.

Dale: Okay, bye, bye. Everybody wants the answer to the question that’s really impossible to answer. I mean you would have a better answer if you had the client in front of you and you knew the circumstances then you could give a pretty.

Lorne: Then I can give some idea of how long it would take.

Dale: But just generally to say how long it takes to get?

Lorne: It’s impossible.

Dale: It’s like how long does it take to build a car, well it’s not quite the same as too many…

Lorne: Well people you know it’s not like you’re buying like a glass or a pen it’s not like immediate it takes time and it’s, and there is a process to go through so and like I said before it takes two parties. So it depends on the parties it depends on the lawyer and so on.

Dale: 416-360-0740 or 866-740-4740, if you have a question for Lorne Fine, our divorce lawyer here is Margery calling from [Shanty Bay]. Margery do you have a question?

Margery: Yes I’ve a question. I’ve a husband, I’ve been married 17 years and I have a marriage contract that says my husband has nothing to do with my house and I have just sold it and the lawyer is holding up my funds. I don’t know what he wants.

Dale: The lawyer for your husband you mean?

Margery: No the lawyer for the real estate.

Lorne: And you’re still married?

Margery: Yes and he is in long term care.

Lorne: Oh your husband is in long term care?

Margery: Yeah and he has been there a year and half.

Lorne: I see.

Margery: And we have been married 17 years.

Lorne: And you’re not separating?

Margery: No. Only through the health reason.

Lorne: I see and so the lawyer is not releasing the funds?

Margery: He is giving me a hard time. He put the money in trust and I told him I could not go along with that because I need money to pay my bills and it has happened the bank called, NSF.

Lorne: I see and are you the designated care giver for your husband?

Margery: Yes I’m.

Lorne: You’re the power of attorney for your husband?

Margery: Power of attorney for house and financial and he owns no property whatsoever, that is why he signed this agreement that he had nothing to do with my house.

Lorne: So did you ask the real estate lawyer what he concerns are?

Margery: He won’t accept that agreement.

Lorne: He won’t accept the marriage contract?

Margery: Yeah. There is two lawyers the one who acted for the property and then this other one is his buddy in the same place and the one will accept the contract. It’s as black as white and the other one won’t, he wants to go through guardianship which is going to cost a lot of money and take a lot of time.

Lorne: But you already have power of attorney.

Dale: Unless he is questioning the power of attorney, he is questioning the validity of the…

Margery: I think he is just being smart ass to me truthful.

Lorne: Okay. You know I don’t know really.

Margery: He is on vacation this week, he also gave me a form to, he asked questions how long had we known each other? What did we do before we got married? And all kinds of stupid questions.

Lorne: All right so obviously he is concerned about something. He doesn’t want…

Margery: And to be truthful I’ve heard about him and I think it’s all money.

Lorne: Well he may be concerned about your husband and that he doesn’t want to be accused to been negligent or do anything improper. So you may need to get a lawyer to write to this real estate lawyer to find out what the deal is because there is, he obviously has, he or she has some concerns about releasing funds to you.

Dale: Is the lawyer suggesting that at some point soon he or she will make a determination or is it just kind of indefinite in terms of the timing?

Margery: Well right now he went on vacation and he is supposed to be back tomorrow and that his office did phone this morning and wanted to know about the form well I’m not filling it out. As far as I’m concerned it’s none of his business what we did before we were married.

Lorne: What form?

Margery: 17 years ago.

Lorne: What form are you referring to?

Margery: Some form he printed up just like a letter.

Lorne: I see. It’s hard for me to judge because I don’t know all the facts.

Margery: Yeah.

Lorne: And really you’ve to find out what this lawyer’s concerns are, now your husband is in long term care so I assume he wants to make sure that your husband is being taken advantage of or anything of that nature.

Margery: I guess that said but I went to the doctors the other day and he signed the form like you don’t get put in there unless you’ve a problem.

Lorne: Right. I don’t know, I think you’re going to have to retain counsel to speak to this real estate lawyer.

Margery: I think retain one that’s a little bit different, someone recommended one but I can’t see him until December which is a long time.

Lorne: Right.

Margery: Like in the mean time I’ve got bills to pay, I’m responsible.

Lorne: Well you can always call the Law Society and give a reference to another lawyer that’s nearby that could help you out that does this type of work.

Dale: A new set of eyes, new thoughts on this whole thing.

Dale: Get another real estate lawyer to contact the lawyer you’ve now and see what the situation is.

Margery: What the problem is.

Dale: Yes.

Margery: What is the number of the Law Society? Do you have it?

Dale: We will get it and you keep listening to the program…

Margery: I will.

Dale: And we will hand it over in the few minutes okay?

Margery: Okay. Fine.

Dale: All right Margery.

Margery: Thank you very much.

Lorne: Thank you.

Margery: Okay. Bye.

Dale: Boy, there is a puzzler but you would think if I mean if you just look at how things work generally speaking said the mere mortal not the lawyer, if you’ve power of attorney both for finances and care for your husband and you and the general matter of course sell the family home I can’t imagine what the issue would be regardless of any marriage contract about this, that or the other…

Lorne: And they are still married.

Dale: That shouldn’t be even, and they are still married.

Lorne: They are still married they are not separated. There must be some concern for the real estate lawyer whether it’s a valid power of attorney and some concern regarding the husband that’s all I can imagine.

Dale: Yeah. Well, good luck with that, Margery.

Lorne: I would just, it sounds like what she should do, Margery should call the real estate lawyer and say, put your concerns in writing, tell me what your concerns are and send me a letter.

Dale: So we can deal with it.

Lorne: So we can deal with it, yes. Set out why I can’t have my money because she sounds to me like she is out of her money but I don’t know the details.

Dale: Yeah.

C: You are listening to an exclusive podcast of Goldhawk Fights Back for you on AM740 Zoomer Radio. Goldhawk Fights back for you airs Monday to Friday 11 to 1 on AM740 Zoomer Radio.

Dale: Okay it’s 12: 51 on Zoomer Radio, Lorne Fine is here answering your questions about divorce proceedings, other family law issues that you may have, 416-360-0740 or 866-740-4740. Rosemary is on the line from Richmond Hill. Rosemary do you have a question?

Rosemary: Yes I do. I’m probably the client that you don’t want to hear from but I was separated 10 years ago from my husband and have been trying to get a divorce ever since. It’s a very difficult divorce. I’m trying to be cognizant of time so to put it in a nutshell financial he had a business, money was all his and I had no money. So trying to get a lawyer first up is just huge. I did manage to find one lawyer who was going to take the case and then I was to pay later, unfortunately he got disbarred. I had legal aid suggested to me, they did take me for one year it was too complicated so that was the end of that. So what does one do basically in my circumstance?

Dale: Well you’ve done all the right thing so far but it’s just not working out is it? Lorne what do you think?

Lorne: It’s very difficult if not possible to get a lawyer when you’re having difficult financial, if you’re having difficult in your finances. And your situation does sound complex, your husband has a business so it’s a matter of determining the value of the business. His income for support and you’re separated for ten years so that’s also an issue because there is a limitation period to claim for property, right, seven years after the date of separation unless there is special circumstances. So you have to really get on it as soon as you can. You know all I can tell you is you should just keep looking for lawyer and maybe you can find a lawyer that will help you out and you should do that sooner rather than later because of the limitation period.

Rosemary: Right. I’ve been trying but it is so difficult.

Lorne: What’s interesting is if it is possible if you can prove the entitlement to property what I’m thinking you could go to a court and say look I’m really in financial dire straits and I need an advance on the equalization payment in order to pay for a lawyer, in order to move forward with my life and the court could order an advance on the money that are owed to you. So it sounds like he is going to owe you some money. So it is possible for a lawyer to go to court, is he paying you support at all?

Rosemary: Yes, somewhat, now and then.

Lorne: Okay so there is no agreement for support, there is no support order anything?

Rosemary: There is no order, there was an agreement his lawyer and my lawyer and we sat down, had a full way meeting and there was verbal agreement to what would be done but nothing was signed, nothing was settled.

Lorne: Is there a house?

Rosemary: Yes.

Lorne: And who lives in the house?

Rosemary: I do.

Lorne: And what’s the value of the house?

Rosemary: I’m not quite sure of the value, now there is a mortgage on the house so I’m thinking it’s probably, maybe about a $150,000 in it at this point.

Lorne: $150,000 in equity?

Rosemary: Yes.

Lorne: Okay so you know you could also go to a court and say you want to take some of the equity out of the house and maybe get a line of credit so that you can pay for a lawyer.

Rosemary: Okay I’m writing all this down, this is fantastic.

Lorne: Like legal aid won’t necessarily finance you as you know for any long duration of time if you’ve assets and so it sounds like there is assets and it sounds like you’re entitled to money.

Rosemary: Well that’s my hope. Of course, ten years is a long time and anything could happen.

Lorne: Ten years is a very long time.

Rosemary: Okay so you’re suggesting that, how would I actually go about doing that? Where do I apply to like to go to court for this equities?

Lorne: Well, you’re in Richmond Hill?

Rosemary: Yes.

Lorne: So you would have to go to court in Newmarket, the Newmarket Court, but you really need a lawyer to help you draft the materials to do this.

Rosemary: Right.

Lorne: It’s very difficult if you do this on your own.

Rosemary: Yes.

Lorne: And I assume a lawyer is going to want some retainer upfront to show that you’re committed to the process but I think there is solutions here, I think you can bring a motion, get some equity on your house, get an advance on the equalization payment there is things you could do. You just have to you waited a long time and you really should do it as soon as possible.

Rosemary: And is there any way that I could speak to off air about this?

Lorne: Well my website is www.TorontoDivorceLaw.com. So if you want to call me you can feel free to call me.

Dale: We will repeat that again Rosemary. Thanks very much for your call. Keep listening. We will do that web…

Lorne: Or my phone number is 416-650-1300.

Dale: Way too fast.

Lorne: 416-650-1300.

Dale: 1300, okay and your website is www.TorontoDivorceLaw.com.

Dale: Torontodivorcelaw.com. Okay, let’s hear from well this will have to be quick, here is Roger from Toronto. Roger I’m getting close to being out of time, I hope you have a quick question.

Roger: Okay I do.

Dale: Yeah, go ahead.

Roger: Except the long you take to answer it. We have been married about 25 years; we have been separated more than two years. She is in DC, I’m 12 years old than her and I want to retire. I don’t make much money. She makes lots of money, am I entitled to get support from her?

Lorne: Okay so you’re separated for two years and have been married for 25 years and she is in DC and you’re here?

Roger: Yes.

Lorne: And you were dependent on her during the marriage?

Roger: No I was not, she was dependent on me.

Lorne: She was dependent on you and then you retired?

Roger: Kind of yeah, no I’m, due to health, I’m going to retire.

Lorne: Okay so you’ve had changes in your health situation?

Roger: Yes.

Lorne: And so now your income is going to dramatically decrease?

Roger: Yes.

Lorne: So there is an argument for support. You just have to, what I will do is you probably should either see if you can negotiate some type of agreement and if she is not willing to do that then you have to start proceedings.

Dale: But that was a pretty argument.

Lorne: I don’t know all the details but it sounds like you know based on the duration of your marriage and that she is making money and you’ve had a changed in your health there is…

Roger: She never made money until the last five years, now she is making a lot more than I am.

Lorne: Well there is certainly an argument, I don’t know, there is certainly an argument and I think it’s worthwhile to try.

Dale: Okay. All right well thanks very much. I hope that helps and good luck. I mean that’s really what people need to know from time to time, is this a good argument?

Lorne: Is it worth it?

Dale: Does this make sense? Do these conditions want some kind of legal action right?

Lorne: Absolutely, yeah.

Dale: Lorne thanks very much for sorting it all out for us.

Lorne: Thank you for having me.

Dale: Once again Lorne Fine is our divorce lawyer here our family court lawyer. What’s that website again?

Lorne: www.TorontoDivorceLaw.com.

Dale: Okay.

 

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